In a quandrey
The other day on TV news a cake shop in Ireland was sued because they would not make a cake with some gay sentiment on it. They were Christians and said it was against their beliefs. They lost the case because of sexual discrimination.
Now I think the cake shop should counter sue for religious discrimination.
Tonight in Southern Ireland there is a vote for same sex marriages to be granted there.
As it is mostly Catholic and the Catholic church does not allow it. It probably won’t get through. So I am thinking will the gay community be able to take the Vatican/Pope to court for sexual discrimination.
Then would the Vatican be able to counter sue for religious discrimination.
Where does discrimination (getting a bit fed up with typing that word now) start and where does it end?
I am neither gay or religious, so none of it affects me as a person. However I just wish people would accept no means no and other people have different views and feelings.
I’m not discriminatory (now it’s getting longer) in any way, shape or form. Except against my husband, cos he is just WRONG.
I would like to hear other’s opinions on this. Just so I know It’s not just me being wappy again. xxx
Well all hubby’s are wrong…… that goes without saying…….lol……..well i don’t know where to start about Ireland……..i love Ireland, the Irish people, the humour and the culture………but in my opinion they are never ever going to agree on anything involving religion….gets a little bit nasty when that rears its head……over here it’s different, and i cannot see that sort of thing happening, i don’t think anyway……as for the same sex marriages…..one source says its a civil thing…another says its a religious thing….so there you go……xx
Mebbe I,m thick,but I dont see a problem….Same sex marriages will always be civil,never religious…..Civil marriages tend to be the norm for more mature people and 2nd time arounds…they are legal and satisfy issues with inheritence etc….I think the world has more pressing problems .
I guess if two men or women want to marry…in the long run,does it really matter ?….Gay people are going to live together,whether or not they have church or state sanction.
The point I was trying to make was suing for discrimination. If a gay person can sue a christian for their beliefs, why can’t a christian sue a gay person etc.
Ah ! Right ! Fair enough.
I do not believe in same sex “marriage” nor do I uphold the gay lifestyle. That is what my religious upbringing consists of. I have a right to my beliefs but, if I should speak out about what I believe it’s discrimination. However, I am being discriminated against because it would deny me my Constitutional right to practise my religion. Political correctness has become absolutely ridiculous. Why can’t people live their lives without worrying what someone is doing? Live however you want but don’t try to make me accept something I believe is wrong.
A person can believe anything they want to believe. A person can practice that belief in their home or their place of worship. A person does NOT have the right to make other people live by whatever belief they have. The public domain is NOT a church or synagogue or mosque, or whatever you call your building of belief. No one cares what you believe, but they do care when you try to make others believe the same thing. Same sex marriage is EQUALITY for everyone. It is NOT a religious experience. You either believe in equality or you don’t. It is just that simple. No one has ever required a religious person to perform a same sex marriage. That’t not how it works. That’s not how any of this works. It is simply EQUALITY, or it is not. NO ONE, NO ONE, is discriminating against anyone because of their religion. When was the last time you were denied your place of worship? A bakery is NOT a place of worship. If you are serving the public, then you are required to serve ALL THE PUBLIC. You are not allowed to single out the ones you don’t agree with, Why is that so hard to understand? I have been gay for 75 years. I have no idea what the ‘GAY LIFESTYLE” is all about. How do straight people know so much about being gay? Keep your religion to yourself. It does not control the lives of other people. Same sex marriage is CIVIL. It has nothing to do with religion. If you don’t like same sex marriage, then don’t marry a gay person. I am an atheist. I don’t demand how other people believe.
One of the points I was thinking though. If the person who went in to order the cake was politely told the reasons why. Why could he/she not just accept there reason and go to another cake shop.
They have dragged a small business through the courts and put themselves and the situation in the public domain. It just made me feel that they are saying their feelings are more important than other peoples and that is a kind of bullying which I don’t like. xx
Scotty if you are an Atheist how can you possibly understand how a Christian feels on this subject?
You have 100% approval from me for this post 🙂
Boy oh Boy,hmmmm wrong start,This doesn`t make sense,if a cake shop took on a commission they would have been aware of the clients requirements,if they refused then I assume no money exchanged hands as the clients were not happy with the proprietors refusal to decorate a cake to gay specifications.Therefore how could cake shop owner be sued ?as there was no contract.Maybe I can sue the train driver next time I catch a train for not taking me to a station which is out of his route,however he would say,there are other trains that go to the station you wish to go to,same as the gays in Ireland could have gone to another cake shop.Surely the law is flexible enough to see this anomaly for what it is and thats probably a misuse of a law intended to protect people instead of exploitation.I dont care for same sex marriage or gays as long as they live their lives within a communities protocols and leave me alone and those that have beliefs contrary to theirs,pheew feel better already.And,by the way Blinkert,I`m sure hubby is right some of the time.
No way about hubby sylvester. xxx
Thank you Sylvestercat for a logical, well thought out answer. As you say…live and let live as long as you leave me alone
What a mess for a cake, I can’t believe it!!!
The baker could have accepted the order, he could have created a wonderful cake for those two person’s marriage and he could also
*** have gone to the next toy shop and bought two nice little boys figures,
wrapped them up in gift wrap and layed them aside to the cake ***
When the two gentleman came to collect the cake the baker could have told them that this was a special gift of him for their day of the year which is to be placed on the top of the cake.
Thinking should always prevail action.
Not sure it was a wedding cake Michael. xx
Where are these people who are so holy that they cannot write on a cake? Do they have coveting, and lying, or adultery under control? Do their words flow with kindness and humility? Religion is being used to restrict access to birth control information and devices for women by men who are supposed to be celibate. I was taught that “my freedom ends where your nose begins”. I don’t always know where your nose is, and we have courts to decide that sort of thing and they have gotten it wrong many times as in slavery and segregation and women:s rights and maybe gay rights. I have lived in a democracy and we are still working on equality for all, and women are losing rights instead of gaining them. I have no reason to state my religious beliefs, because it should not affect this discussion at all.
Religion should be about love, tolerance and acceptance, not hatred, fear and homophobia. In the US the ultraconservative Christian right wing uses laws which pretend to be about religious freedom to legalize discrimination against gay people. What a travesty of religion! For shame!
Agree laurie and well stated. They also used it to protect slavery and did and are using religion to deny rights to women.
Religion, Laurie, is about what you believe to be right, true and God’s word. If you do not believe homosexuality to be right in God’s eyes and you seek to follow God, then you have every right to refuse to do something that would be against your belief. No one is trying to force others to their way of thinking, but everyone has the right to practice their religion how they see fit. You do NOT get to force YOUR beliefs/practices, however you want to phrase it on anyone else, GAY, transgender, Wiccan, etc… It’s that simple, Also, the terms tolerance and acceptance are often confused. We are all called to tolerate one another but acceptance of something you do not agree with is NOT called for.
People do not have to accept gays, they just need to allow gays equal access to the same goods and services available to others. If your religion has a problem with that, you may be misinterpreting the language of god. I have never seen this taught,and I am fairly well versed in religion. My religion is about living and correcting myself and let others do the same.
Well said Rose.
Ashers is a chain of bakery shops who did supply Tesco’s…….but now Tesco’s have stopped trading with them…..so I guess Tesco’s saw them as in the wrong also…..
No misinterpreting at all, Rose. It is very clear that the rights that we afford others are not being reciprocated. If a business owner decides to refuse service to ANYONE b/c of a religious disagreement, that should be their right If it would interfere with their conscience. You do NOT have to agree with his or her religion, but it is their right to take a stand for something that they believe in.
Well Millie, I see your point but would it not be reasonable to suggest that, if you have particular religious sensibilities, it is up to you to avoid any activities which might put you in positions where they night be offended? Gay people are part of society – normal members of public. If you don’t want to serve them then I would say you shouldn’t run a business that means you have to deal with the public.
And that’s the risk you take, Star, when you go against the popular sentiment or what is politically correct. Sometimes you have to take a stand regardless. It’s not about being popular – it’s about doing what you believe to be right.
They should have been professional and treated them as ‘customers’ regardless of their personal prejudices, so they deserved to lose, it is almost in league with the Rosa Parks incident. Mind you there is a saying in the UK that you can’t have your cake and eat it!