Watching the news unfold Saturday Evening, another terrorist attack on London Bridge, people killed, many injured, people saying its time to draw the line, as in don’t let anymore immigrants into the country. That horse has bolted, they are already amongst us hundreds of them – frightening times and more ahead. It isn’t going to stop.
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Over here at the moment all we have is campaigning for this weeks election……my thoughts are sod the election……..Corbyn and May should be getting their heads together and coming up with a plan and solutions re the terrorists…….should be pulling together……not be pulling each other apart…..
Good blog and ideas Star
Hi Star,
I’ve been watching all this stuff on the BBC about Manchester and London. I think politicians just about everywhere are missing some important points. I don’t know if I am right so I welcome discussion. My intention is not to offend anyone but I may be less than politically correct because I think that is a large part of the problem. These criminals who commit these acts are dissatisfied angry and jealous. Most of them are not recent new immigrants, most of them are home grown and most are the second generation. They are resentful that they are not as successful in their work and personal lives as they should like. They are unable to take responsibility for their own failures…….it is not my fault, it is not because I did not study, did not work, it is because I am different etc, they look about for an excuse. They look at the news and see Muslim countries, being invaded, being bombed, they forget that often those very countries asked for Western intervention. ” Oh man, they are killing Muslim children, families, the ones doing the killing are the same kind here, who stand between me top jobs, riches.” Such a person is ready to be radicalized.They are told that anyone who is not a Muslim is worthless, Allah want’s them wiped off the earth. If the non Muslim does not embrace Islam, kill him. The resentment grows and revenge can be taken on that society that lives within the country. You can take revenge and feel no guilt because you are wrapping your criminality under a cloak of religion.
Having worked in the NHS and lived in Aden for a while, I have known many Muslims, good people and good families who I have had good times with. In the up country in Aden in the 1960s, very conservative and there were some things that went on, that I admit I had difficulty with. In a district called the Hadhramaut, some land owners owned slaves, it was explained to me that it was better to be a slave , than it was to be a poor man. The poor man was on his own, the owner had an interest in keeping the slave fed and healthy. Yet I was treated with respect and courtesy, I was a guest.
Having said all this, I believe more effort has to be done to integrate families. No special Muslim schools that perpetuate segregation of girls into second class persons. No Sharia law, One British law for all British people. All women, by law have to go to English lessons if need be. Without the language they have no way to integrate. They would learn the language and the laws of the country. If a women misses going to classes, the husband is fined. In extreme cases any received benefits could be cut, if the woman does not achieve enough workable language. This is hard but you have to get the women educated. Too easy now for a certain kind of man to keep is wife under total control and almost a prisoner, letting her meet only with those he wants her to meet. Educate the mothers and that will help the children. It would also help these women get jobs if they wanted to work. These women would encourage their daughter to take advantage of education. They should be taught British history, they should learn that it was only a hundred years back that British women were property of their husbands. They should learn that further back Christianity divided in to different branches of the religion and that those factions had wars , there was fighting and many people died over it, until they learnt to live together. British women have rights but they had to fight for them. It is important they know this I think.
More Muslims are needed in the Police, men and women. That first dreadful case of all those young girls groomed to be sex slaves in Rotherham. For eight years ,police, social workers, laywers did not want to hear, afraid of being labelled racist. It took one very brave Muslim Lawyer, to ask……why are we not prosecuting these Muslim men who are abusing these children? Brave man who no doubt was called many names. OK guys I’ve run out of stream LOL. Please carry the discussion on……….
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Hello Rock, let me put your comment this way; you are right as well as wrong.
Please compare the social structures in the Mulim countries. If a man has not at leat vocational skills he is nothing, he ears nothing and doesN#t get any social benefits out of the system. In a case like this the only resort is the army.
Those people you ahve in mind never compare their present situation with a similar situation in their homeland. If they would, they would have to realize that their social status in one of our countries is higher and more secure.
The prophet offers them for their killing here a place in the garden eden, their own harem, a high social status for them and member of their family. These are not all I know for sure but this are key points to clear the view. Michael
Hi Rockflower……..soooooo very much to be sorted where do we start…….well my criteria would be………your welcome in my country if you have a substantial amount of money to bring with you, enough to last until you find employment, no freebies for you here…….or you are a trained professional in the medical field and can bring your skill to us, gawd knows we need you here for that, where have all our white docs gone ?………..you don’t come here to try and change our laws and culture, fit in or ship out………your women maybe dirt under your shoe, ours are not…….don’t think you can take our benefits with one hand and blow us up with the other……..I would never in a million years have called myself racist, now others may…… I have been made that way…….I live pretty close to Rotherham where the grooming of the girls took place, I read one of their books, it was sickening beyond belief……….all carried out by lowlife scummy foreigners…….and don’t anyone tell me they are English because they were born over here……..take you knife culture and sickening activities back to where you belong……..and now I read that at least one of the policeman that shot the terrorists is now suspended pending enquiry……..for f….s Britain grow a backbone……….we need every policeman on the streets we can get never mind suspending them for keeping us safe……..I despair….
And, as often happens, the terrorists have achieved almost everything they wanted. The news is full of their exploits, people here are spending lengthy periods thinking and writing about them.
It is being suggested here, and in the papers and TV, that the major matter with which we should be concerned in UK, namely who is best to negotiate the best deal for us to leave the EU, be put aside or ignored in favour of some stupid knee jerk reaction to recent events which will then be criticised as such given a couple of years.
For once, perhaps, we could do what these animals least expect and want. Deal with the immediate problems caused by the attacks, but otherwise ignore the filthy, cowardly creatures and carry on regardless.
My problem with all this is the media…these horrific acts are being publicised all day and night…shown over and over again…that is exactly what they want….report the news but do not show their names and faces….we are playing right into their hands when doing this…
Waylander and Ossie……I hear you. Too much excitingTv reporting on their exploits. Don’t feed into their want of publicity. On the other hand we do have to make regular people aware. If all the citizens in Rotherham had been fully aware of what was going on in their town…….would it have gone for eight years? Police and officialdom have to be absolutely clear that all have to be equal under the law, This over political correctness has to go. This idea that you can not offer criticism of anyone of any colour is daft and dangerous. I read that people were saying Diane Abbott had been subjected to racism because she had been criticized over her performance and views.!!?? Well that makes me a racist because I don’t care if she is — sky blue pink with a finny haddock border– but I think the woman is a condescending idiot. If she is thin skinned, she has no business being a politician.
I would say to anyone…….remember there are good Muslim families that just want to live a peaceful life and prosper. Remember these terrorists kill them too. Remember that Muslim guy who travelled to Scotland to kill a Muslim shop keeper because he did not like the Scottish Muslim’s life style, that he had read about in a newspaper. They were willing to knock down anyone on those London Bridges. They are like cancer cells in the Muslim community, they will infect or kill anyone they are in contact with.
Do also remember we have some bent weird people who call themselves Christian, even sects or cults of such people.They don’t do mass killings so much but they do force …brainwash their women into lives under complete control, something like slavery and make a rule out of beating children. This is tolerated in some countries but I think most Christians are loud in condemning it. We do need more Muslim police, they will be able to read the nuances of Muslim life better and not be called racist for doing so. Definitely more police on the streets.
Wayland, I agree with you. The media should cover ALL the news.All government agents should do their jobs, and the citizens should do all they can that is positive. I know the knee-jerk reaction is just hide at home, but that would be the wrong thing to do.
The US wars and policies is creating hate in some Muslim countries. The UK is an ally. This is causing the terrorism.
Pretty hard to ignore Way………yes we have to carry on as normal, but it would be comforting to think that some kind of track was being kept on these people who keep leaving the UK and returning…….and they aint going on holiday either…….two years ago one of the shot terroists was out in the streets waving his flag and promoting whatever they believe in…….so yet another that was known and ignored……..much to the cost of many……..
Hollering and shouting in the streets, waiving flags and/or banners is not forbidden in the UK, thank god. As for known and ignored, there are not enough people to
watch everyone nor hours in the day.
Star, I agree with you on many points,I came to Canada, I did not ask Canada to change for me. We came and we both worked never were a cost to the Canadian taxpayer. Many things are different and being human sometimes we thought we knew better but we always believed In Canada and it’s laws etc.We made a great effort to get to know Canadians and the country. Yes somethings I don’t totally agree with but I’ve been here so long I can’t think of one now. Naturally when I lived in UK, I did not agree with everything either and I did not like every individual. I can say Canada has been good to us. I too just don’t think you go to another country and expect to have your own laws, schools etc.You find out about British life before you go and if you cannot accept it….don’t go. The very basics of British Law are equality of males and females, free speech. Seeing a face is a right, everyone should be able to recognize who they speak to and be able to read the face fully.
I agree with you….. if you sneak out of the country to go somewhere to fight British soldiers , in my book you are a traitor and should not be allowed back in. If you were born in UK you will be treated as a traitor. I’d say to the males, learn to look at women without assuming they are available to you at every opportunity Women have to freely agree to consort with you. Very young girls 12yrs.up are out of bounds period, no matter what they do or how provocative you think they are.
It is a side issue but I would like taxi drivers to have character references and a certificate or something posted in the cab to say their references are good. I often thought of this arriving late in a city strange to me . I’d take a cab sometimes with weird looking drivers and not know where I was being taken etc.
So we are in one mind I think.
Everyone talks of the victims of such attacks and the perpetrators, but thought is seldom given to the officers who took the attackers down. They are going to have to live with what they had to do. I just hope they get help should they need it.
I so agree Way……..so what do I read today…….at least one of the cops that shot the terrorists has been suspended from work pending enquiry………suspended for preventing more people being stabbed by these crazed madmen……….all we need less police on the beat errr……Sheesh…… I hope the police get help re counselling, and all the families and friends that have lost loved ones……the ones that witnessed the horrific scenes and were forced to run and hide…….the grief and aftermath is great……
Hadn’t seen about the suspension, but it doesn’t surprise me in the least. They cry out for armed officers, then give them no support after the event. No wonder the numbers volunteering for firearms training are going down.
That would have been effective 15 years ago, unfortunately it really is like ” shutting the door after the horse has bolted”. It has to be accepted these attacks cant be prevented just reacted to. Out of all the European countries, the UK is definitely a more illustrious target
Hi Steven………sitting ducks we are………they can put all the barriers they like on the London bridges, it isn’t going to stop the lunatics ploughing down pedestrians on any one street they are in any one given Village, Town or City in the country………. yes they are here, filtered in over the years, and they wont be leaving our shores anytime soon…..that’s a fact……
What to do? Starlette, probably nothing effective. Policies about oil is probably generating a lot of this turmoil and the US policies are not going to change.
If other energy sources are used, that would end a lot of the need and value of oil.
Hi Rose, not quite sure why policies about oil is causing these horrific attacks here and in other countries………..forgive my ignorance but maybe you could explain the relevance……..would be interesting to know your take on that…..in fact if anyone does know the reason why we are being attacked then I would love to know…….. I honestly don’t have a clue….
Starlette, you have an open mind, and rockflower did a good job of explaining, but I personally think religion is used to further objectives of som key players. We do have a lot of mosques in this country.
When the US bombed Iraq, one of the first things the US did was shut off a pipeline to Syria. The US met with The Saudi’s and they decided on an oil deal whereby the US and the Saudis would share the oil profits. I don’t know all the details. If there was no oil in the middle east, do you think we would be there? Iraq has one of the biggest oil reserves in the area. The Muslim middle east has one thing, OIL, and some countries are not benefitting so, of course, they are angry. How many civil wars in England was fought over religion and then Henry 8th took over the religion and then that was the end of religious wars.
The rally cry of every war is God but also”to the victor goes the spoild”.
I think oil has had a part to play in these terrorist troubles. It was just after WW2, that the American President had a meeting on an American war ship off the coast of Saudi Arabia with the King . An agreement was signed that Saudi Arabia would provide uninterrupted supply of oil to America and in exchange America would in no way interfere with the religion of Saudi Arabia. The kind of Islam that the king was promoting was, is a very conservative radical form and the Saudis have been exporting and pushing this round the Islamic world. There is a school of thought that this why we have this extreme version that is feeding into the aims of today’s terrorists. They really have no wish to integrate or accommodate other religions, they preach that if you do not embrace this ideology you should be a slave or be dead. The Saudis have funded the building of their kind of mosques in western countries, good luck trying to find one Christian church in Saudi Arabia. The West still needs Arabian oil but America not quite so much now, as America is doing a lot of fracking. However the Saudis are very wealthy and they like fancy weapons so they buy a lot. Note the Saudis recently gave Pres. Trump the over the top welcome and knowing this president needs jobs in America, they gave him an order for I think, 1 1/4 billon dollars worth of weaponry. The present king is old and fairly circumspect, the crown prince is often described as a thug! So let us hope the old king lasts a long time.
There is a new “white hope” of a new fuel but guess what? it is made from sand and the Saudis have a whole desert full of sand!? So this reliance on Saudi good will may not end soon. We do need a new fuel, I did note that in a UK newspaper last week, it was reported that all of Uk’s electricity that afternoon had been provided by wind power.
Now Pres. Trump is not going to sign the Paris Treaty on carbon emissions etc. He thinks that China emits more carbon than the US so the treaty should be harder on China. The US is high up on the scale of carbon emissions and he is cutting all kinds of programs , that are working to cut those emissions plus research. China is producing more wind turbines than anyone else in the world. They are doing lots of research into batteries for vehicles, last year I believed they closed over a 1000 coal fired power stations. So it seems to me that while China had an appalling level of pollution and carbon emissions to lower, they are working very hard to get those levels down. No country can do anything, take any action without that have some kind of an impact on other countries even on the other side of the world.
Rockflower, you seem very well informed and You probably have most of it right except the religious part.
Hi Rose,
Where do you feel we differ on the religious part?
Religion is used as a reason for the terrorism, but the real reason is about oil and who controls it.
It all about wanting total control…….be like them….think like them……..look like them……..if you don’t comply with our beliefs then we will slaughter you…..
Roseinbloom, I don’t think we disagree all that much…These terrorists twist the religion to use it. just as ‘The Irish troubles’ was not about religion but about power on all sides. The Saudis are Sunni Islam but the Saudis are the birthplace of the Wahhabi version of Islam and this is extreme. The religious police in Saudi are likely to be Wahhabi, these police patrol the shopping malls and if they see a women fully covered but perhaps her sleeve has slipped and a sliver of wrist is visible, one of these police would hit her, punch her in face and she would consider she had got off lightly. Just one instance……all Western newspapers, publications that enter the kingdom round Christmas time, the religious police obliterate any thing that mentions the word Christmas or even Santa, you can have father but no Christmas linked with it. If you enter the country with books, it is likely that any page with any reference to Christianity, a photo of a church or Cathedral, the cross on anything. Recordings of classical sacred music, if it has anything that looks Christian to the inspector, they will take and destroy it. The Wahhabi sect want our goods and will hide their dislike of us if it suits them but make no mistake they do not believe we have a right to be on this planet. The Saudis have built mosques in most Western countries and they fund them and certain clerics who enter these countries and preach hate of westerners at every opportunity. Other regular Sunni and Shia are much more moderate and accommodating to other religions. Saudi Arabia import many Muslim workers to be servants but these and especially any Shia Muslim is very likely to be abused or held captive. I tell you I cringe when ever I see one of our politicians or royals with Saudis.
Rockflower, Mr, Trump is preaching a lot of hate and violence. He and his constituency are the most extreme American that we have, He has neo nazis backing him. He is under investigation for obstruction of justice, but not for this issue. He is pandering to the most extreme element of our country and a lot of our country are pretty ignorant. They have been here and only here.
The Muslim and Christian religion has been made extreme and violent when it was never intended to be that.
Hello all,
to discuss the immigrant-problem out of ones national view ist one of various other options I would say.
The muslim attacts have started with the metro assault ( 15 years ag if I remember it correctly?? ) via New York, Boston, Brussels, Paris, Berlin, London and that will not be the end, not these were just the short steps of a long lasting war which no side will win.
The UK did very well when countrys border were closed like in Calais some month ago.
I remember times when it was nearly impossible for a foreignen expat to enter into the UK without having enough money for a certain time of stay and a bailsmen who would vouch for that person.
The situation now: Europe is an open paradise for any kind of charcater killer or king it doesn’t matter. Our national forces are far more afraid of stupid investigations that follow after they have simplified a hazardous situation.
No my dear friends, the idea of an united Europe is more than good, it is excellent if each nation can keep its own rules and regulations. The Moslem religion and Christianity will never fit together. That’s impossible. The only way both religions can live together will be
the respect on every social level a society ist constituted of.
Neither the UK nore Germany, France or any other country in Europe can do with unskilled people. Our industries are on a such high level that there is no place for people like these. Those who have work, pay taxes and social insurance contributions can’t be
condemned to support their lives.
If our countries would have a consequent immigration policy ( which can be sometimes hard for an individual I know ) that would help. Those who come to us should stay at home and bring their own country in a shape to meet the challenges of the future.
Hello Michael, I hear what you say……but we welcomed them in all those years go……..now we pay the price……..there even killing their own so I don’t see what that has to do with fuel………and yet again we offer a retreat to the refuges that they so badly need……..hope some of them were yet not more terrorists that we welcomed in…
Hi Michael,
I do appreciate hearing you view on things. I do hope that everyone recognizes that we are expressing our views on events as we see them from our perspective, I for one invite anyone to correct me if they think I’m wrong and no offence taken, I want to understand.
I watched on my TV here in Canada, as the roads of europe were filled as ‘refugees’ marched across the continent. We know there are genuine refugees, who have left every thing behind to seek refuge. We all saw harrowing sights and heard the pitiful stories of people drowning trying to get to Greece or Italy. We would be less than human if we did not feel for these people. Yet most of the refugees I saw, were fit healthy young men, in their nikes sneakers, with cell phones and such.I could not help thinking to myself why are these fit young men were not staying to fight for their countries and restore peace to their home land? A compassionate Germany took in so many for the best of humanitarian principles but Germany will never be the same again.
Way back in the 60s, there was a politician in UK. His name was Enoch Powell and in his non political life he was a Greek, ancient civilization professor. He was vilified because he was opposed to mass immigration. He warned there would be “rivers of blood’ in the streets, not so much with the new immigrants but with the second and third generations. I too thought he was dreadful at the time. Now I’m more inclined to take his views on board. I think in the post war years when western countries became rich and Britain perhaps especially as there was obligation to past colonial countries of the old British Empire. We had the privilege
of helping others, handing out largesse and this made us feel good. How ever what happened last summer was on a scale not seen before or anticipated. Our politicians did as they were used to doing……we must be good,we will save these people. But this is over whelming and many of these people do not want to integrate with Christians, they want what we have but they despise the way we live and want no part of it. In their culture women are subservient and western women are even less in their eyes. I honestly don’t know what can be done now. I do think that there should be zero tolerance for any who murder or rape, they should be returned to where they came from, I don’t understand why the EU opposes this. I guess most of UK does not understand that either.
We should have listened to Enoch…….
I am SO with you on that starlet.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing………..if only we would listen and act on it……