It is hard to disagree and remain friendly.

Politics and religion are the two issues that must be the most difficult to discuss and not make enemies. It is my opinion that these can be discussed but we must be very specific about anything we disagree about. And we must be willing to accept that each of us has core beliefs that almost surely will remain even after much discussion. Opinion and beliefs are not facts.

Generally we do not learn anything by discussing any issue ONLY with people that agree with us. And we take the chance that beliefs that we start with may be shown not to be correct.

It is hard to disagree and remain friendly. was last modified: August 31st, 2017 by LoneRogue
Published in Politics & Religion

47 thoughts on “It is hard to disagree and remain friendly.

  1. starlette

    Hi Lonerogue……….I myself am willing to discuss anything, but I always find it invariably turns into not a discussion but people trying to make you change your mind and why your beliefs are wrong…………Politics….. just a repetition of what a President, Prime Minister MP has done or said, what they lied about Blah Blah Blah………..Religion there are no facts, no proof of anything, so a discussion on that is fruitless………….I keep an open mind on politics, and do not religiously vote for who my parents voted for as many do…….I listen to what they have to say and their promises……….but I have found over the years they do not keep promises, they lie to gain positions……..sooooo I no longer waste my breath and time talking about them………..

      1. starlette

        Hi LoneRogue, if you made a statement and I knew for a fact it was wrong, then I would explain how I knew and back it up with proof, especially if not knowing the facts were to your detriment…….but peoples beliefs in politics and religion in my experience you cannot change anyone’s mind about…….and indeed why would I want to…..

        1. len1932

          I have been a newspaper reporter since 1972, ( 45 years )and the last 6 years I write a column on the religious pages each Friday. When I was in paper office today, I mentioned that I will be 85 years young this month and may quit writing for the newspaper. The editor said, we count on your Religion Column and the newspaper has grown over the past 6 years because of it. So i will keep writing.

    1. len1932

      I write a column Lens Lines — A Little Religion On A Positive Note by Len Granger each Friday for our local paper then it goes worldwide to 230 countries on Faithwriters,com. Almost every week when in town at post office or shopping, people come up to me and tell me they read my column. Many say they have started going back to church or never thought much about being a Christian.but now attend a church. The Police Chief meet me at the post office and we prayed right in the doorway as people passed around us. Our small town of 13,000 has more churches than most towns. Remember Matt 21:22 “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.”
      That is a powerful message to believers that put their hope, trust, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord will never give up on you as He loves you and has his arms open ready to save you from the worldly evils.

    2. len1932

      I as a kid many years ago thought everything I heard on the radio was true and accepted it. Now I read the paper and listen to the news and see many different views on the same subject. So believe what you want and make your own decisions and pray they are correct

  2. l1k3s2l4ff

    I think that you are right in what you say, lonerogue, but it is not impossible, just difficult. I find it is wise before embarking on religious discussions to state that just because you are having a discussion doesn’t mean that your opinion will change, and politics is something that I have found it is better to go in to with an open mind and do as much listening as talking, you can sometimes learn something then, particularly if you are not affiliated to any particular party. The more you know ,the more informed your final choice will be.

    1. LoneRogue Post author

      Indeed it is not impossible to discuss controversial subjects. If it were possible to somehow go through life without ever irritating another person perhaps we should let issues pass that we disagree about. But it is not possible and in my opinion irritating another is part of life. And a course toward truth.

    2. roseinbloom

      I agree I1k3s214ff, I cannot repeat your user name, and you make a great point about listening more than talking. I will confess, I am not good at listening but I do try to keep an open mind. I do like to hear other opinions. I hear talk about FACTS, and we should all consider that FACTS are usually just OPINIONS. We get news that is biased and distorted and sometimes just FALSE. Usually a few facts are sprinkled around a lot of false conclusions. I still think that people have a brain and it is for using to learn about the world around them.

  3. waylander

    I tend to avoid discussions of either politics or religion as my experience is that most have their opinions well locked into their brains as solid facts and therefore any discussion tends to degenerate into a slanging match.

  4. Rockflower

    It is the emotion isn’t it? Religion if someone starts to talk about this, I say right up front….I’ve thought long and hard on this subject, I’ve worked out my own belief and it is pretty fixed now. This does not mean I disrespect what you believe…..your beliefs are just not for me. Politics also gets emotional, it is hard to take in that another person has a totally opposite view to your own. But everyone has a different life experience that has shaped them. I have a long time friend who I can agree with on most things in life, BUT not politics, she truly thinks I’m out of sight Left and I tend to think of her as being somewhat Right of Genghis Khan. Naturally we both think we are totally reasonable. We are not going to change each other’s views, I’m a product of UK, she of SA but I still love her dearly even if she has some daft ideas LOL! Sometimes we can actually agree on a political matter and that is the point…….. find the connecting bridge. I think she is often wrong in her judgement but I do know she is a good person who is looking for the truth. I hope she thinks the same about me. I just wish our politicians would see the good in each other and look for the bridges of consensus with good will. There has to be some “horse trading, some wheeling and dealing’ that is high political art and there is precious little of it these days.

    1. roseinbloom

      rockflower, SA, I think may be Saudi Arabia Arabia. I love your words, but don’t we and individuals need to learn some art of “horse trading and wheeling and dealing and building brides of concession”.
      I did know one person who was very diplomatic and he would always say, ” I can understand what you say and why you felt that way”. We all need to do more of that. I will not even claim that I am good at it. Our experience and education shape us, but we don’t ever want to stop learning, Do we?

  5. LoneRogue Post author

    Should false “political” statements be allowed to pass and repeatedly pass with no response? That may prevent an argument. Is it best?

    I like the way science and especially medicine deals with research. When a theory is proposed as a paper presented at a medical convention, there is generally opposing or critical views of the subject presented and additional research almost always ensues. There are sometimes emotional feelings about what is said or critiqued however more discussion and research is the general result.

    How are we benefited by letting wrong statements pass without comment?

  6. Drummer

    There are subject on which I have my own thoughts – they are just that and is some cases they will remain just that.
    I have no problem with folk holding different views but don’t feel; inclined to try and change their minds – am I odd?

  7. rose1943

    You are never odd, Drummer. Your relaxed philosophy is awesome and admired. Having a 53 year old marriage, I know folks have their differences. We would just bring them to the table, let them have air, discuss (or argue) and compromise. Same with the children. When we’re finished, we hug and we’re better off for it. Never ever hold grudges, it’s a rule. But that’s family. Two important words in my home are “I’m sorry” I’m glad we do this because my daughter is a teacher and many times will apologies to her students if she’s having a bad day and short with the children. With some folks we have to use our instincts to hold our tongue….especially if we know the discussion gets us nowhere. I say Amen.

  8. cefnrider

    History shows that people of opposing views will never change by discussion and if you look at how many wars there have been it only proves we are unable to change except sometimes by force and you cant have that in chat rooms so best left for other places because it is only a chat room and i for one dont want serious discussions and arguements which achieve nothing but in the end can ruin a chat site forever as most will know.
    Stick to the rules and use your common sense

    1. roseinbloom

      Cefnrider, we have shut down topics till there is no safe topic left.Politics and religion cover every topic known to humans. Even weather is not a safe topic anymore, We have the climate change deniers and the climate change believers. Art is controversial and we have statues being taken down and we have defenders of said statues. We need to learn to accept differences and benefit from them. Every person has a valid opinion of one person, so we can learn from everyone.
      I am afraid if we shut down the voice of the majority, we can be led by a few evil or misguided individuals.
      Socrates taught a method of learning that questioned everything until it could be questioned no further. I still believe in that.

      1. LoneRogue Post author

        A reasoned post, Roseinbloom. Shutting down discussion of any subject is censorship. Not a healthy thing to suggest for a society that wishes to have freedom. However I agree with Cef that it can and has caused groups like this to decline.

        We may recall that just a few short months ago there was daily multiple posts on politics in the blog section. Exclusively, I thought, one sided. I began questioning some of the things being said and heated discussions ensued. I feel you have responded very fairly and I have no ill feelings toward you for standing your ground. I will stand mine and try very had to be reasonable in my questions and remarks.

        I do not wish to cause conflict and will be more careful to avoid personal remarks *especially* thinly veiled ones.

        1. roseinbloom

          Lonerogue, I appreciate your very thoughtful comments. We all need to state our opinions and not attack the person. I have forgotten the whole discussion of politics because it was read and then forgotten.
          A’s I said, there are no safe topics anymore.
          I live with a person with opposite views on most subjects, so I can say that I can like and respect people with different points of views.

  9. vonMichael

    Hello LR,

    To discuss politics seems to be a pure act of time-wasting.
    Themes the public gets to know are of secondary relevance. The real politics
    that matters most is not designed for the eyes and ears of the public.

    Example; has any poiltician informed the public in beforehand over all the
    consequences the Brexit will bring to the population?
    Means most people got catchphrases to digest before voting. No one ever will win a voting by mention negativ aspects before cast of his vote.

    To discus religion is more difficult cos religious belief itself contains out of
    so many individual facts which will never fit another character.

    1. LoneRogue Post author

      I don’t agree that discussion is a waste of time. Often persons in any discussion hear things that they have never heard before and may have some thoughts about their former position on issues. For instance you above speak of “consequences the Brexit”. I recall the dire promised consequences the Brexit vote itself. The vote was taken the results were to leave the EU and the “consequences” have yet to appear.

    2. Rockflower

      Von Michael,
      We all have to discuss politics because it affects all our lives. The greatest problem is voter apathy and ignorance. Apathy because half the people cannot be bothered to learn about the issues They don’t talk with one another for fear of being out of sync’ with another. Even places that used to be centres for a mix of society to engage in conversation are now fewer. The church halls, the British pub, the union halls. People used to strike up conversation with strangers on buses and trains….now everyone is plugged into some electronic device. There is the social media but people feel free to be offensive, much harder to be rude to another person face to face. People tend to gather with people who have identical views to themselves.People are losing the ability to have reasonable courteous discourse.
      Very dangerous if we all stop probing and questioning our politicians because then we would lose our freedoms , as politicians
      would organise everything to their own advantage. Each generation has to keep fighting for freedoms or we will end up totally brainwashed like a N.Korean society.

      1. len1932

        Here in the USA we have freedom of religion and believe as we see fit. Churches are not taxed in any way. I do not always agree with all the pastor says and we have had a talk or two. We agreed to disagree and are close friends,

    3. roseinbloom

      Good point vonMichael /Brexit, a perfect example of something that citizens should have been asking more questions and now I don’t really know if anyone knows how it is going to work or if they really want it. I

  10. Rockflower

    Hi Rosinbloom, I apologise for not being very clear. SA stands for South African.
    Hi Cef’ I have to partially disagree with you….I think a wiser person than I…Winston Churchill said, “Jaw jaw is better than war, war.” You are right in believing that the jaw jaw, does not always work, of cause it does not but it is the best tool we have. Everyone should be taught from an early not to caste their own beliefs in concrete. we should aim to keep our beliefs and understanding fluid. We all tend to hold on to what we learnt first, myself included. We enjoy the first version of a Shakespeare play and we tend to let that version be the guilded standard of that play for evermore if we let it. I think it very important that everyone talks on these difficult subjects….we all need to try and sympathetically understand where the opposing view comes from. We need to ask why someone believes what they believe. We have to acknowledge another’s fears and concerns. WE will come across the awkward cuss who believes that if you are not with him 100% in his views….then you are the enemy.One can only feel sad for the ignoramus but he is probably a very scared person, fearful aggression the worst kind. If we all cease to talk there is little hope for the human race.

    1. roseinbloom

      Rockflower. I like that jaw jaw is better than war, war. I never heard it. You have added a lot of words that could help us. We need to remain fluid is one. I agree, if we cease to talk there is little hope for the human race. We have the gift of voice and a brain, and are we to remain mute?

  11. lo1234

    I think it’s interesting that people have different views and I like to hear them whether I agree or not. Why not hear both sides of the story and then make your own opinion? Just because you may not agree is no reason to attack. It’s called discussion or debate. Also, I some of my best friends that I have had forever have other opinions than my own. We are friends regardless.

    1. len1932

      If all agreed on everything and had no comments on politics and religion is would be a boring world to live in. I think as individuals we have our own opinions Some people share theirs and others only listen to others opinions.

  12. vonMichael

    Good Morning to you all,

    Politicians never tell the full truth. Let me give you an example; have you ever heard
    of ** The Bilderberg Conference ** or the business meeting in Davos/Swiss?
    Here you find the answer of who rules the world. Take the time and google for or use
    this link ** Bilderberg 2017: secret meeting of global leaders **
    Compare after you’ve read this with what the news in media will tell you about those
    topics which were discussed by the members. Michael

    1. starlette

      Politicians tell us what they think we want to hear……..many many secret meetings take place behind closed doors regarding our welfare, or lack of……they only come to light when some MP or other becomes upset over a difference of opinion and decides to spill the beans…….then it leaks out……we already know that little by little the NHS is being sold off……I have absolutely no trust or confidence in any of them……….and we are being told we should listen to them and discuss what they have to say……….can someone just tell me WHY………..

    2. Rockflower

      Are you referring to this somewhat secret meetings that are held amongst international politicians, some royals, titans of business and few others.The meetings are held in different countries, I know there was one in Canada, UK and Denmark I think. Visitors arrive at airports and are whisked to the conference in cars with dark windows to the conference place where all is closed off with overwhelming security. This is supposed to be some world order of elite leaders, so elite that we are not sure who they are. They have ar supposed to have a secret hand symbol. This is said to be holding fingertips and thumb tips together with shaped space inside the these fingers. Merkle does this as do some others. No interviews or reports, no media at all.
      These people have messianic complexes believing “they” have been “called” to rule the rest of us.Tony Blair is one of these…..he makes my skin crawl watching him slither round Brussels, kissing Juncker. The ordinary citizen does not have much power against these elites but we have to keep questioning them, pushing them as they carve up the world for themselves . Just occasionally we the people can upset their plans and that is good. God I sound paranoid LOL but I do believe this.

      1. starlette

        Government strategies

        The tribal wisdom of the Dakota Indians, passed on from generation to
        generation, says that;

        “When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, best strategy is to
        dismount ” .

        However, in government, more advanced strategies are often employed, such
        as:

        1. Buying a stronger whip.

        2. Changing riders.

        3. Appointing a committee to study the horse.

        4. Arranging to visit other countries to see how other cultures ride dead
        horses.

        5. Lowering the standards so that dead horses can be included.

        6. Reclassifying the dead horse as living-impaired.

        7. Hiring outside contractors to ride the dead horse.

        8. Harnessing several dead horses together to increase speed.

        9. Providing additional funding and/or training to increase the dead horse’s
        performance.

        10. Doing a productivity study to see if lighter riders would improve the dead horse’s performance.

        11. Declaring that as the dead horse does not have to be fed, it is less
        costly, carries lower overhead and therefore contributes substantially more to the bottom line of the economy than do some other horses.

        12. Rewriting the expected performance requirements for all horses.

        And of course….

        13 Promoting the dead horse to a supervisory position.

        If you don’t understand this theory, you haven’t lived long enough.

        Like

  13. foreveryoung2

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion – what I object to is those who try to ram their opinions down your neck. They are not interested in your opinion. I agree there should be discussions and each side should respect the others opinions. We are all different, come from different places in life, and obviously will have different opinions in most cases. I have spoken out (albeit on FB) about the rorts of our politicians. If we don’t speak out, as someone has already said, politicians will do what they want for their own gratification, which has been going on for years, but now because of social media, the public voices are being heard. With regards to religion, my opinion is that there is no-one on this earth who can truly say who God is, whatever name is used (Buddha etc) so opinions on religion is what we have been taught, and what we choose to believe. Different countries have different opinions on God and salvation. Who is one to dispute these beliefs. Each to his own interpretation of the Bible and other forms of religious text. That is what I believe religion is – an interpretation, and each interpretation has its believers. I, for one, believe there is a God, but who on this earth can tell me who God is. So religious discussion cannot be had on facts, but can be discussed as to one’s beliefs. Obviously these beliefs will be different for the above reasons. Religion has been used to start wars, to outcast people, to burn so-called witches, to start new religions based on their interpretations, etc, etc. Example Henry the 8th started the Church of England so that he could have several wives. Well I believe I have opened this up for discussion. These are MY opinions.

      1. LoneRogue Post author

        I believe it is possible for all to believe in “god”. Describing “god” is what causes the horrendous differences. I went through many years searching for some understanding of “god”. I believe we all must find what is acceptable to us and allow others to do the same. Many, and this includes those who want to spread their belief to others, will not allow questioning of their belief or even in most cases to provide answers to questions about that believe. And there are just questions about all beliefs. I think it is some uncertainty about beliefs that causes discussion problems.

        1. len1932

          Everyone has their belief of some sort. Some believe in themselves while others believe in a God that watches over them and blesses them, I pray several times a day and believe Jesus Christ the son of God answers me. I write a newspaper column and in the night he gives me stories and Bible verses, I believe the Lord heals and most doctors I have met feel the same way.
          I was told 6 years ago I had prostate cancer and it was Stage 4. I paid for my funeral and picked out the casket Then I prayed for almost 3 days straight off and on asking for the Lord to heal me and the Lord said he would. I went back to the doctors and said I wanted no treatments of any kind. They said then we do want to see you. So went to the Air Force doctors and over the 6 years there is no evidence of ever having prostate cancer. I praise the Lord daily and the Bible says, Matt 21:22 ” And all things, whatsoever ye ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive,’ The Lord heard my prayer and I believe he laid him hands on me and healed me.

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